Bovine TB and 10% tree cover rule debated at FW’s Question Time

Bovine TB, controversial plans for 10% tree cover on all farms and what English farmers can learn from their Welsh colleagues were debated by an expert panel and a live audience at the Royal Welsh Winter Fair.

Farmers Weekly podcast and projects editor Johann Tasker chaired the 75-minute event at the Royal Welsh Showground in Builth Wells, Powys, on Monday 27 November.

The panel included NFU Cymru president Aled Jones, Prof Glyn Hewinson, a world-renowned expert on bovine TB, Llyr Gruffydd, Plaid Cymru shadow rural affairs minister, Anne-Marie Harries, an award-winning artisan preserve maker who farms in north Pembrokeshire, and Kim Waters, founder and trustee of the Welsh Rivers Union.

See also: Red Tractor and food security scrutinised at FW’s Question Time

Below, we’ve pulled together some of the best questions from the evening. A recording of the event is available on the Farmers Weekly podcast.

Farm support

Is it about time we scrapped farm subsidies?

NFU Cymru president Aled Jones said historically subsidies had enabled farmers to supply the public with quality food at affordable prices, and this remains the case today.

Therefore, he did not think Wales would ever be in a position where there were zero subsidies for farmers.

He said many countries have some form of support for agriculture, whether direct or indirect, and he still fundamentally believes in it.

When that support is taken away, as in New Zealand in the 1980s, it creates difficulties.

“I would say that farm support will be with us and will have to be catered in such a way that it guarantees the supply of sustainably produced food. That’s the argument that we have with Welsh government and that will be the crucial element of gaining that support going forward.”

Llyr Gruffydd said the farming sector delivers many things to society, from sustainable food production to tackling climate change and biodiversity loss.

Therefore, he said it was “absolutely right” that the taxpayer should contribute, so everyone can enjoy and share the benefits.

Kim Waters said he fully endorses farm support and wants to see more offered to allow farmers to produce more food.

“I will not buy New Zealand lamb and I will not buy Brazilian beef when these are produced sustainably here.

“And we only produce it sustainably if farmers are supported and subsidised,” he added.

Chairman Johann Tasker asked the audience if they felt subsidies should be scrapped. No one raised their hands.

Food security

How do we best communicate to the consumer the importance of a robust domestic supply chain to deliver both food security and the public good?

Mr Jones said a recent NFU Cymru-commissioned independent consumer survey found 82% said supporting agriculture to produce food was a good use of public funds.

The same survey revealed that 67% of respondents believed food security should be promoted.

“When you consider the fragility of global food security, people are beginning to realise how pressured and stressed the whole global food supply is,” he added.

“If we are to maintain that public good of food supply, we must invest in robust, sustainable systems for years to come.”

Mr Jones linked food security to stability in communities and said global governments had a collective responsibility to invest in food resources in their own countries.

Anne-Marie Harries, business owner at Farmers Food at Home, Llanreithan, Pembrokeshire, said more people are looking to buy sustainable, locally sourced food produced with low food miles. “Ultimately, that’s what people want these days.”

Mr Gruffydd said during Covid people reconnected with local food production and the pandemic reminded people that investing in local economies and making it easier for smaller businesses to compete is vital.

But he said much more could be done to invest in local producers and the onus was on government and policymakers to try to facilitate and create an environment “that helps communities to keep the local pound as local as possible”.

Audience view

Edward Morgan is a manager from Castell Howell Foods, a food wholesaler which supplies food to more than 1,000 schools, as well as every hospital in Wales and further afield.

Mr Morgan said consumer demand for food is high, but as intermediaries in the supply chain the company is seeing a “disconnect” as demand seems to be outpacing supply.

With more emphasis on environmental policies and farmers struggling with difficulties such as bovine TB, he fears primary agricultural suppliers in Wales could lose the capacity to supply the volume of food they require, forcing companies to source more produce from overseas.

Sustainable Farming Scheme

When are we likely to see some real clarity on the SFS for Wales?

Mr Gruffydd said the Welsh government is due to launch a consultation on the latest iteration of the Sustainable Farming Scheme (SFS) before Christmas, possibly by mid-December.

But he fears a “glaring omission” will be any details on finance and the levels of payments farmers can expect to receive for completing different actions.

The Welsh government’s Brexit and our Land consultation (2018) did not mention the word “food” in any of its 66 pages, Mr Jones noted.

But the Agriculture (Wales) Bill, passed in August, did at least contain Sustainable Land Management objectives, including food production.

Mr Jones agreed that clarity from the Welsh government over the budget is crucial. “We are trying to design something for the future. Without a budget, we cannot pilot. We cannot undertake any studies,” he said.

“It’s as if we are building an aeroplane in the sky without a runway to land it on. I think that’s a very scary position to be in. ”

The Welsh government seems to have given the “badge” of sustainable food production, without having the volume of food production, he added.

Bovine TB

Given the apparent benefits of reducing bovine TB incidence in areas where there has been a reduction in badger numbers, why does the Welsh government not want to use this course of action?

Prof Hewinson said he could not answer on behalf of the Welsh government, but pointed out that not culling badgers was included in the Labour administration’s manifesto, and they had been elected.

On the science, he said it is true that, epidemiologically, badgers play a role in bovine TB transmission, “not always, but sometimes”.

And when they do, as evidenced in the randomised badger culling trial, the incidence of bovine TB in cattle does reduce with culling.

But Prof Hewison argued that in every TB “hotspot” that has been analysed, the primary cause was cattle movements – specifically, infected cows carrying TB into new areas.

Then cattle-to-cattle transmission starts, followed by cattle-to-badger and badger-to-cattle transmission.

He said TB was a “complex issue” and there is a fine balance between economics, disease control and politics.

He said the Welsh government was elected on a platform of not culling badgers, which was probably why there was no cull in Wales.

Therefore, he said, it was important for people to focus on what can, rather than what can’t be done, under this administration.

The most important aspect was vets working with farmers, and with government and academics as partners in a much more collaborative way.

Mr Gruffydd accused the Welsh government of “going round in circles” on its TB policy over the past 12 years.

He urged the Welsh government to look again at the science and evidence on badger culling and make it available for use in Wales, as part of other options.

Mr Jones said the Welsh government’s TB policy was sure to fail if it did not tackle the reservoir of disease in wildlife.

He said stopping cattle-to-cattle transmission of TB is paramount, but the testing regimes are inefficient. Therefore, developing better diagnostic tools to detect TB is essential.

But he added: “I still say that there’s a welfare issue. If we will not address TB within wildlife, you allow animals to suffer a horrifying death.

“That’s the reality. Cattle are taken away before they suffer clinical disease.”

Mr Jones dismissed suggestions that the Welsh electorate had voted against badger culling, simply because it had not been debated within the public.

“There’s a lack of understanding about what TB means. So, for Labour to have said it was in the manifesto and people have voted us in on the back of it, was wrong.”

Audience view

Neil Howey, a veterinary surgeon from Cheshire, one of the badger cull areas, questioned whether aspirations to be TB-free according to the current definition is achievable, given limitations around testing and the spread of the disease.

Water protection

What would be a workable solution to nitrate vulnerable zone (NVZ) regulations?

Mr Jones said the full terms of the Welsh government’s Control of Agricultural Pollution Regulations are not yet in place.

But by next August, five months of slurry storage will be required on farms in Wales for any slurry produced by livestock (six months for pigs and poultry).

There will also be a complete ban on slurry spreading between 15 October and 15 January. And these closed periods are inflexible.

Mr Jones called for a more considered approach within the regulations, noting that the environment, soil temperatures and rainfall patterns are very different on farms across Wales.

“I think we need to get into a more considered approach. Farmers have never farmed according to the calendar.

“They have always farmed according to the season and also their particular farm circumstances,” said Mr Jones.

Mr Gruffydd said he proposed the annulment of the NVZ regulations in the Senedd.

He said the Welsh government rightly recognised the need to protect water quality, but had come up with wrong regulations when other solutions were available, such as agricultural colleges developing technologies that inform farmers when the time is right to spread slurry.

Audience view

Welsh dairy farmer Chris Hanks said the regulations were “being forced on farmers” by the Welsh government.

But low farmgate milk prices mean many dairy producers will struggle to find the funds to invest in items such as pasteurisation of slurry, phosphate removal of slurry, and slurry storage facilities on farm.

Tree cover target

Does the panel agree with the Welsh government’s plans to enforce all farms in Wales to have a minimum 10% tree cover to access public funding?

Mr Waters said he did not like the prescriptive nature of the policy, but said everything should be done to support the sensible use of trees within farming systems that support sustainability.

Mr Jones said there was an argument for “the right tree in the right place for the right reason”, but the issue had polarised the industry.

Although he could see the benefits of planting trees in some areas for flood alleviation and providing shade for livestock, more consideration must be given towards the effect on food production and the viability of farm businesses.

He hoped the Welsh government would introduce some flexibility in its approach in the next consultation on the issue, due to be launched in mid-December.

Mr Gruffydd said he was not surprised there had been a negative reaction to the policy from farmers, as to meet the 10% target many would have to plant trees on productive land and potentially undermine the viability of their businesses.

Farms were also being bought by investors for large-scale tree planting which was having an impact on rural communities, he added.

He believed there were other ways of capturing carbon on farms, such as a “hedges and edges” approach, which creates shelter belts and wildlife corridors, improves soils and mitigates flooding.

Collaboration

What can English farmers learn from Welsh farmers?

Mr Jones said one of the best Englishmen to tread on Welsh soil was Sir George Stapledon at Aberystwyth University.

“He instilled the science of grassland management throughout Wales. The legacy of that work has probably infiltrated the whole industry in Wales.”

Over the past decade, Welsh farmers have enjoyed multiple successes at the British Grassland Society awards simply because this expertise is there.

“So what we do well in Wales, I think we could teach in Wiltshire,” said Mr Jones, turning to Mark Jeffery, the English farmer who asked the question.

Prof Hewinson said the pilot Pembrokeshire TB project, where farmers and vets are working together to empower themselves to make better decisions on how to manage their cattle, was a really good example of people working in partnership to better control their herds, which the English could take a leaf from.

Ms Harries said Welsh pride was important and another area the English could learn from. “That’s one thing as specialist food producers we shout a lot about is Welsh food production. Loud and proud.”

Mr Gruffydd said English farmers could learn a thing or two about shearing sheep from their Welsh colleagues. “We could teach the English how to shear sheep. We have won a few world cups recently in this,” he added.

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